tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6373991095344339826.post6884496388845492248..comments2024-01-02T06:12:15.912-08:00Comments on Interactive Illuminatus: Versus Series 4: Games vs. PlayFergusonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07222853326787219768noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6373991095344339826.post-21461046358349000172010-03-30T10:31:39.838-07:002010-03-30T10:31:39.838-07:00Yes, my previous comment was poorly phrased. Ther...Yes, my previous comment was poorly phrased. There are many aspects of our subjective experience we have no control over. <br /><br />So like you said, two players could approach a game with wildly different capacities to play it, and that would be part of the subjective experience. No game is objectively "difficult" just like no game is objectively "easy." It depends on the player's previous experience with games.Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07222853326787219768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6373991095344339826.post-12879400323184951602010-03-30T03:58:53.536-07:002010-03-30T03:58:53.536-07:00Thanks for the clarification, in that case then (a...Thanks for the clarification, in that case then (as seems to be common!) - I completely agree with you. <br /><br />I find also that the players may not even be in such direct control of that subjective experience. In single player gated games for example, a new player or someone of a low skill at a particular game might be getting "hard agon" out of just trying to pass the first level, or to actually use the controls. Whereas someone very experienced at that game or even just the genre, may find it trivially easy and be receiving no challenge at all.<br /><br />I find my tastes are definitely towards 'true agon'; the way this affects my game taste is noticeable.Remy77077http://agoners.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6373991095344339826.post-67423647331843774392010-03-29T11:27:49.895-07:002010-03-29T11:27:49.895-07:00As I understand Bateman's distinctions, "...As I understand Bateman's distinctions, "hard agon" emphasizes the competition while "easy agon" downplays the competitive aspect. Again, Bateman here is talking about 'play' in general, so you could have "hard agon" and "easy agon" in any form of play, game or not game. <br /><br />I see no reason to limit games to "hard agon," just as I see no reason to limit "agon" to "games." My definition of games is specific, but it is quite flexible within those parameters.<br /><br />The only real issue I have with those designators is that they fail to capture the subjectivity of the play experience. Essentially, I believe it is up to the players, not the game or play, to decide whether to be in a mindset of hard agon or easy agon. While Mario Party might be engineered for a fun family experience, there's nothing to stop hardcore gamers from organizing Mario Party tournaments or sling out the trash-talk like they were playing Halo or MW2. Any game will support a wide spectrum of competitiveness, so I'm not sure we'd be able to label any specific video game as hard or easy agon--at best we could describe the type of agon it appears to be catering to.Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07222853326787219768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6373991095344339826.post-66097684594331864462010-03-29T04:04:05.844-07:002010-03-29T04:04:05.844-07:00I think this precision is very useful in this disc...I think this precision is very useful in this discussion, where the semantics are very unclear and ill-defined in the 'general' sense. I am quite sure Chris Bateman does not start with the same definition of a game as you at all; his take is very much from the starting position of 'all things we currently consider as videogames' and does not attempt to make the distinctions you do.<br /><br />Are you dismissing 'easy agon' though as 'not a game'?Remy77077http://agoners.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com